Miranda NG Official Community Forum

Forum for English speaking Miranda NG users => Development => Topic started by: sss123next on 03 03 2016, 04:04:45

Title: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 03 03 2016, 04:04:45
Hi all. i think many old users remember me. For those who do not know, in past i have created icqj plus mod for miranda-im with small group of developers. I have created new_gpg for miranda-im for money, later i have ported it to miranda-ng and currently i supporting it here. Also i have created few small plugins and few modifications of large plugins. I also have unofficially participated in designing miranda-im from time to time. I have created few large closed project for internal use with miranda-im as core component (project are closed and unavailable for public, but still use today).
Currently i do not have paid work so i propose to work on miranda-ng for money.
workflow acceptable for me:
1. we discuss features which you need.
2. i will discuss with developnent team if they accept this features to be implemented.
3. we discuss the amount of payment and time of development.
all my code will be uploaded in main miranda-ng repository under gpl license.
if you want some closed plugin or miranda based project for internal use, it is possible but it will cost much.

P.S. sorry for my bad english, it's not my native language
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: Tragen on 15 03 2016, 14:21:30
How about OMEMO encryption?
Perhaps there are a lot of users waiting for it and some of them want to spend money for it?

http://forum.miranda-ng.org/index.php?topic=4378.0
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 26 03 2016, 15:15:57
i will read about it.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 27 03 2016, 06:23:21
omemo looks interesting, well documented, resaerching it. but it depends on few other xep's, so i should talk to ghazan and oyher jabber developers about it first.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: Thug on 27 03 2016, 20:07:00
Whatsapp protocol is in development hell right now. Personally I would pay if someone managed to make it possible to merely chat at least. There are many users who need it. Perhaps a kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/) platform may help you in your plans.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: AnrDaemon on 28 03 2016, 02:38:47
Since there's no public API for it, any implementation of it would be a "hack".
And kickstarter have an… interesting policy about hosted projects.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 28 03 2016, 04:16:51
whatsap is not interesting for me, and i can't even guess how hard would be to develop it and how much time it will take

i do not see to much sense in asking for miranda related jobs on kickstarter...
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: Thug on 28 03 2016, 08:58:38
sss123next, Well, the protocol actually works itself. We just can't see the incoming encrypted messages due to the lack of axolotl protocol support. I have just read that OMEMO uses the Axolotl key management protocol to provide encryption. So, as far as I understand, the implementation of OMEMO would eventually help with whatsapp plugin as well ???

AnrDaemon, sss123next, The kickstarter was just a first thing to come to my mind as a fair way to.. kickstart a payed development, you know :) I beleive there are many better alternatives. A guy who develops a whatsapp plugin for pidgin sells it on gosell.it platform (even though it is open-source), but such a way won't work with Miranda NG, I guess.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: Robyer on 28 03 2016, 12:10:49
sss123next, for ideas people want/need you can see our UserVoice account (https://miranda-ng.uservoice.com/forums/250387-general/filters/top). I'm not sure how these users would be willing to pay for that though :)

But I would like to see greatly improved SmileyAdd plugin:
 * Rewritted support for "custom smileys" / stickers (like these on FB/VK/Skype...)
 * Ability to use more smiley categories / smiley packs at once (like having tabs/categories in smileyadd selector window, to have basic smileypack + unicode emojis. And/or seeing smileys in categories and not in one whole list.)
 * Maybe even integrated support for unicode emojis (user would select single smileypack for emojis and they will be showed and available to pick in selector window for any protocol/contact)
 * Automatic downloading of custom smiley packs / stickers from internet (again, like on Facebook where there are many different Stickers categories to select and send from)
 * Maybe rework smiley selector window to be more like Skype one - with big smiley preview at the top and list of static smileys in categories at the bottom.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 28 03 2016, 17:48:43
ok, i have started fixing aim now, and i wish to implement omemo, i am not to strong in gui development, so smileyadd can be problem for me )
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: Testertime on 28 03 2016, 21:16:28
I believe it's important to strengthen open protocols and open software, so OMEMO in conjunction with Jabber is very, very awesome. Using encryption over the WhatsApp protocol is likely to be a passive timebomb when their systems are noticing encrypted messages which they can't decrypt secretely at their servers. At least they aren't shy at all to ban people for using third party clients. Two sources: https://www.whatsapp.com/faq/en/general/105 and http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2391417/whatsapp-slaps-unoffical-app-users-with-24-hour-ban

Regarding OMEMO I had posted a topic here (a few weeks ago): http://forum.miranda-ng.org/index.php?topic=4378.0
The developer behind the "Conversations" Jabber app for Android puts a lot of effort into making Jabber userfriendly for everyone and making security very convenient at the same time. So far only the Conversations app for Android and the desktop client called "Gajim" has OMEMO support, but at Gajim it's not useable at all for the standard user, as it requires some compiling stuff and installing libraries and depencies which aren't even well documented in the instructions I have found on Google so far. Also, I'm seriously prefering Miranda NG over every single messenger program out there.

By the way, what about Bountysource for organizing money for issues and feature requests? Maybe that's an idea, but they are charging 10% of the money at withdrawals.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: Thug on 28 03 2016, 21:52:30
Using encryption over the WhatsApp protocol is likely to be a passive timebomb when their systems are noticing encrypted messages which they can't decrypt secretely at their servers.
But they are already using the encryption in their clients. Whatsapp plugin is almost useless right now, because we can't see the encrypted messages coming from the official clients. Encryption implementation is obligatory for whatsapp plugin. Therefore, there no need to send encrypted  messages, we only need to decrypt incoming text.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 28 03 2016, 23:07:08
as i said, omemo looks interesting, and possible to implement, for now i am trying to catch ghazan online to talk about some details), rest of team looks like accept it.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: AnrDaemon on 29 03 2016, 16:04:31
I believe it's important to strengthen open protocols and open software, so OMEMO in conjunction with Jabber is very, very awesome.
Spoiler
Except that Jabber itself is very, very weak… It was born when ICQ was mainstream, but it is unwieldy and lacking many features demanded by modern world.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 31 03 2016, 15:26:51
ok, i have talked to rest of team, look like no one against omemo, so i will work on it, but now i am working on  implementing "clientlogin" for aim/icq (already paid), so omemo comes next )
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: Tragen on 02 04 2016, 21:10:14
Sounds good. What do you think how long it will take to fix it so you could start with OMEMO?
Think about creating the funding now so we can get enough money for it the next days/weeks.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 03 04 2016, 04:19:07
can't say exactly, but i think few days.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: Testertime on 03 04 2016, 21:10:19
ok, i have talked to rest of team, look like no one against omemo, so i will work on it, but now i am working on  implementing "clientlogin" for aim/icq (already paid), so omemo comes next )

Thank you!

Except that Jabber itself is very, very weak… It was born when ICQ was mainstream, but it is unwieldy and lacking many features demanded by modern world

Yeah, it has sadly it's flaws. But ... what is the next best open alternative? Obviously these companies have a huge advantage with their money, and almost every time they don't care about privacy and an open standard and are interested in snooping. It is sadly the same problem like with e-mail. It is so old and has flaws, but who will establish a newer and open-minded standard? Commerical companies most likely not. Especially not in times where people are even using Skype and WhatsApp for highly private and business conversations.

So we need to make the best out of the existing standards. Daniel Gultsch has shown with his effort on the Conversations app and the new HTTP file upload XEP extension that there is a lot of potential to make it much better for everyone. And the situation with Jabber is looking a ton better than it was the case a few years ago.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 04 04 2016, 07:06:55
about jabber weakness...
from time to time i am thinking about binary efficient protocol with best of xmpp concepts in core, but..., i am to lazy to create it, also i am not good at advertising things to public, so it will be unknown even if i ever implement it...
so for now jabber is the only solution we have
about money, i do not need all at once, it will be ok to be small donations from time to time via different payment systems (via darknets, hidden, secure, unknowm .... ))))) )))
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: Vulpix on 04 04 2016, 11:38:18
how about Tox. Already implemented and supports binary communication. End to end encryption, fully P2P. @ https://tox.chat/

I already bountied/paid one to Unsane (thanks @unsane!) for creating the tox implementation for miranda. Currently working pretty well except for group chats, but those are being worked on.

Bounty @ http://forum.miranda-ng.org/index.php?topic=2487.msg11273#msg11273
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 04 04 2016, 19:30:14
from my point of view, currently tox lacking of offline storage (which may be implemented i think), so contact list can be stored in net, offline messages can be stored, and another related info can be stored in net
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 15 04 2016, 17:48:46
so, aim clientlogin mostly done, few things left to be implemented (it's using non-standart http which is currently impossible to implement via miranda api), i think soon i can start work  with omemo.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: DreamFlasher on 21 05 2016, 12:37:27
I created a bounty for OMEMO implementation for Miranda here: https://www.bountysource.com/issues/32298989-support-for-omemo-encryption
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 23 08 2016, 14:43:00
thx, it's long delay, but now aim finally working as it should (at least login part) http://trac.miranda-ng.org/changeset/17193/
it taken a bit more time than expected (some changes and fixes in core, not only in aim itself)

so as i promised omemo will come next, i will start working on it in week or so.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 30 08 2016, 14:21:26
i am ready to start, but first all who want to pay for this should understand few things
1. read this https://conversations.im/xeps/multi-end.html#security
also i have little conversation with this protocol extension creator, and here it is (with permission from him):
Code: [Select]
[16:56:41] sss@dark-alexandr.net: what prevent server from adding one more instance, or swap instance by fake one ?
[16:56:51] sss@dark-alexandr.net: so it can implement classic mitm
[16:56:56] sss@dark-alexandr.net: i mean this:
[16:57:18] andy@strb.org: the same thing. users verifying keys
[16:57:41] andy@strb.org: the XEP clearly states in security considerations, that clients have to prompt the user
[16:57:56] andy@strb.org: so if a new device pops up, it's not just silently accepted. the user has to make a decision about it
[16:59:49] sss@dark-alexandr.net: 1. client connecting to server
2. client publishing omemo info
3. server takes this info into invisible cache
4. server publishing OWN omemo info
5. second client establishing omemo session but not with first client, but with server itself
6. server do the same for second client, so first client establishing session with server too, and not with second client
7. server see all unencrypted data completely undetectable by client
[17:00:14] andy@strb.org: yeah. this is why you have to check the keys yourself
[17:00:25] sss@dark-alexandr.net: ok
[17:00:27] sss@dark-alexandr.net: understand
[17:00:28] andy@strb.org: it's the same as in any other end to end encryption, like PGP or OTR
[17:00:32] andy@strb.org: it's really unfortunte
[17:00:36] sss@dark-alexandr.net: yes
[17:00:37] andy@strb.org: but there's no other wy
[17:00:56] sss@dark-alexandr.net: can i publish this part of our conversation in miranda-ng development forums ?
[17:01:09] andy@strb.org: sure
[17:01:11] sss@dark-alexandr.net: thx
[17:01:25] sss@dark-alexandr.net: so we need to implement warning about all this
[17:01:28] sss@dark-alexandr.net: thank you

so as this extension have automatic key exchange implemented, it will be easy target to attack, so all keys must be at least double checked.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: Tragen on 20 01 2017, 00:12:43
There is also a plugin for Profanity. Perhaps you can get code/ideas from there.
https://github.com/ReneVolution/profanity-omemo-plugin
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 29 01 2017, 13:19:32
i have read specs and do not like design of key exchange mechanism, it have potential easy to attack flaws, also seems not many peoples wanted this feature ...
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: Tragen on 29 01 2017, 23:56:09
A lot of people want omemo. You are the first who doesn't like the design but all crypto experts say that it is the best protocol
we have.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 30 01 2017, 09:16:55
it have strictly standartized key echange, and even worse, it controlled by server pubsub module which is perfect place to implement completely automated mitm attack.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 03 02 2017, 17:07:55
anyway, what about the money ?
unfortunately currently i do not have free time for free, also i do not like omemo itself, it is a right direction of course, and very good what we have new standards moving in right way, but this key exchange part...
i dislike it a lot, and it key concept for omemo to work...
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 04 02 2017, 23:17:51
A lot of people want omemo. You are the first who doesn't like the design but all crypto experts say that it is the best protocol
we have.

actually i like pgp, one thing missed is session keys, also i dislike status signing part which is source of many problems and incompatibilities.
in my vision we need to extend xep-0027, status signing requirement must be eliminated, and session keys must be added, and it will be good standard, also, key exchange part MUST not be described in this standard and maintained by users, i mean first key exchange, all derived keys can be exchanged automatically via connection encrypted by initial key (not plain text).
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: Vulpix on 05 02 2017, 00:01:32
I'm curious.

I would pay if someone looked at/fixed the following:
https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/issues/609 ( MsgExport's "Export All History" is very slow )
https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/issues/690 ( SkypeWeb: it is often impossible to log in )
https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/issues/608 ( SkypeWeb: Irregular chat events are not marked as read )

All three are somewhat important to me. How much do you reckon you would want for them?

I have posted (AND PAID) numerous bounties for work on miranda stuff, most recently for implementation of Discord protocol, but previously for the implementation of Tox as well as numerous fixes to SkypeWeb, rewarded people being Ghazan, Robyer and Unsane.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: Robyer on 05 02 2017, 21:04:23
I would pay if someone looked at/fixed the following:
https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/issues/609 ( MsgExport's "Export All History" is very slow )
I'm working on that one already, fix is coming. :)
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: Vulpix on 05 02 2017, 23:29:37
I see it's pretty much fixed (tested it, it's working great!). Bounty paid as agreed, please let me know when you receive it!
Title: Re:work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: Robyer on 06 02 2017, 10:19:34
Vulpix, bounty just received (as always), thanks! :)
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 10 02 2017, 17:24:48
anonymous someone is ready to pay for omemo, i will start work in sunday.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 24 02 2017, 07:27:48
so i am started work on omemo implementation.
currently core, jabber protocol preparation is done (thx ghazan).
necessary libraries updated.

and very first part of omemo itself is implemented (4.1 from https://conversations.im/xeps/multi-end.html )
of course currently no use of it, but it's already a start ).

you can watch development in real-time on https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/commits/master  (my name is sss123next).
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: Robyer on 24 02 2017, 09:01:50
sss123next: Tip for your link, you can filter by author and see all commits only by you: https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/commits/master?author=sss123next

On a side note, I noticed you use very strange style of commit messages, is it intentional? Or maybe your software generates such "tree"? Recommended and standardized way is:

Code: [Select]
Commit subject
<empty line>
Optional description.

Here is nice article about how to write good commit messages: https://chris.beams.io/posts/git-commit/

And in Miranda repo we prefix the subject with plugin name or "thing" that this commit is about. E.g. "Jabber: Add empty handlers for omemo message/key" or "libaxolotl: Fix project file"
But important is it everything important (main message) should be all on first line, and be very short. As you can see, even GitHub only shows first line (and only around first 60 chars) and everything else hides under [...] button, so your commit messages are usually very hard to read.

It would be appreciated if you could use the mentioned commit message style, as we others.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: Vulpix on 14 03 2017, 18:40:09
Speaking of bounties, I'm posting a few more.

$100 tier
https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/issues/690 ( SkypeWeb: it is often impossible to log in ) - not taken
https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/issues/720 ( [Tox] Constant avatar requests from miranda-ng tox users. Other clients unaffected. ) - taken by @unsane. I'm waiting for it to happen again to provide info....
https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/issues/608 ( SkypeWeb: Irregular chat events are not marked as read) - Not finished, worked on by @Robyer however, half fixed, so $50 sent to Robyer)

$50 tier
https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/issues/732 ( [SkypeWeb] Friend requests are not received ) - not taken
https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/issues/664 ( SkypeWeb: Filetransfer (media only + sending from miranda) is broken ) - not taken


My already paid bounties:

2015

$100+$400 (so, $500) for fixing Tox protocol & implementing new api, paid to @unsane ( http://forum.miranda-ng.org/index.php?topic=2487.msg11273#msg11273 )

2016

$40 for fixing https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/issues/615 , paid to @robyer (http://forum.miranda-ng.org/index.php?topic=4896.msg18365#msg18365)

2017

$40 for fixing https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/issues/609 , paid to @robyer (http://forum.miranda-ng.org/index.php?topic=4896.msg18365#msg18365)
$200 for https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/issues/629 , paid to @ghazan ( https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/issues/629#issuecomment-272423857 )
another $200 for https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/issues/629, paid to @ghazan ( https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/issues/629#issuecomment-282561037 )

Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: dr_xadium on 20 03 2017, 11:46:00
I'm willing to pay for work on the WinterSpeak plugin for getting the Lexicon system working so I can have it correct the pronunciation of usernames. (Probably just a back-end substitution of one word for another without affecting the typed output text to Miranda.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 21 03 2017, 19:43:03
i have some progress with omemo, but i have only initial small donation, so additional donations are welcome.
you always can track development progress on git, for example via github web ui https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/commits/master?author=sss123next
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 27 05 2017, 07:23:09
oh guys ... it's a shame, one man has paid for all of you.
it's make me feel evil ...
now we have working omemo, however still have some work to do.
check it https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/commit/5ab73a190c76b8d43a19866451f6aaca0895781d
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: DreamFlasher on 20 06 2017, 15:15:27
oh guys ... it's a shame, one man has paid for all of you.

That's not quite correct. There are two additional people, including me, who paid here: https://www.bountysource.com/issues/32298989-support-for-omemo-encryption
Unfortunately, that bounty has been closed for to me not understandable reasons. But you should request your money from bountysource.
The only thing is... I tried to get it running, but so far wasn't succesful to have a single Omemo session with your plugin. See the bug report here: https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/issues/529#issuecomment-308783899
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 20 06 2017, 23:35:36
That's not quite correct. There are two additional people, including me, who paid here: https://www.bountysource.com/issues/32298989-support-for-omemo-encryption
Unfortunately, that bounty has been closed for to me not understandable reasons. But you should request your money from bountysource.
The only thing is... I tried to get it running, but so far wasn't succesful to have a single Omemo session with your plugin. See the bug report here: https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/issues/529#issuecomment-308783899

about bountysource.com - sad, hope you guys have money back.

i have replied on github ticked, thx for info.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: Robyer on 21 06 2017, 07:34:29
about bountysource.com - sad, hope you guys have money back.

I believe it is marked as "closed" on BountySource because it was marked as accepted and assigned to you on Trac. But it doesn't mean the money are gone, it's still waiting for your completion of the feature. There is still "Did you solve this issue? [Claim Bounty]" button, so you can use that.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 21 06 2017, 12:58:18
oh, such a complicated system....
it will be much easier to just use bitcoin, or any other system directly ...
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 26 06 2017, 02:30:21
I believe it is marked as "closed" on BountySource because it was marked as accepted and assigned to you on Trac. But it doesn't mean the money are gone, it's still waiting for your completion of the feature. There is still "Did you solve this issue? [Claim Bounty]" button, so you can use that.
thx for info, looks like i figured it out.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 03 07 2017, 17:19:07
looks like this bountysource have stolen my payout to bitcoin.
maybe it work better for other payment systems...
i suggest to avoid it in future...
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: Robyer on 03 07 2017, 17:28:40
sss123next, I don't believe they would just stole your money. Did you contact them via support@bountysource.com about that?

Also, see https://github.com/bountysource/core/wiki/Frequently-Asked-Questions

Quote (selected)
I submitted a cash out request. When will I be paid?
Cash out requests are processed every Friday. Any request submitted before the start of Friday (Pacific Time) will be processed.

I chose to be paid in a non-USD currency (e.g. Bitcoin). When will the conversion happen and what is the rate?
Conversions happen in real-time the moment cash out requests are processed by the Bountysource team. Conversions are done by our payment processors, currently Coinbase for BTC and Ripple Trade for XRP.
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 06 07 2017, 00:57:46
looks like it stuck for more than 10 day in pending state
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 11 07 2017, 03:39:58
finally o have received my 0.000000.... )
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 11 07 2017, 13:08:46
so, i have some time, i can do some more work in jabber...
Title: Re: work on miranda-ng for money
Post by: sss123next on 16 08 2017, 07:47:28
so. i have some kind of plan for further omemo related work https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng/issues/529#issuecomment-322692183
donations are very welcome.

also note this:
https://github.com/bascht/omemo-top/pull/68
just something to be proud of )