Miranda NG Official Community Forum

Forum for English speaking Miranda NG users => Miranda NG general talk => Topic started by: yoGhurt on 11 10 2014, 22:43:20

Title: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: yoGhurt on 11 10 2014, 22:43:20
Hi,
From a while, i found that Miranda wants administator privilages. Even it's portable version installed in main folder on C: drive.
Anyone had problem with that? Partly solution for this is changing privilages in properties, but it's not best solution for this to do that after every core update or sth.
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: watcher on 11 10 2014, 22:49:10
Quote from: yoGhurt on 11 10 2014, 22:43:20
Even it's portable version installed in main folder on C: drive.

It shouldn't behave like this. Start from posting your VersionInfo (http://wiki.miranda-ng.org/index.php?title=Version_information).
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: watcher on 12 10 2014, 08:31:49
Can it be PluginUpdater? When does it ask for administator privilages? On every start, on updates check?
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: yoGhurt on 12 10 2014, 13:26:59
Oh, right, i forgot about VI because it was just-installed stable 0.95.2 (i also tried on lastest alpha, same thing), anyway, here's VI :

VersionInfo
Quote
CPU: AMD Turion(tm) II Neo N54L Dual-Core Processor [AMD64 Family 16 Model 6 Stepping 3] [DEP enabled] [2 CPUs]
Installed RAM: 1920 MBytes
Operating System: Microsoft Windows Server 2012 R2 Essentials Edition, 64-bit  (build 9600)
Shell: explorer.exe
Internet Explorer: 9.11.9600.17278 (build 99600)
Administrator privileges: No
OS Languages: (UI | Locale (User/System)) : Polish/Polish | Polish/Polish
Free disk space on Miranda partition: 91154 MBytes

Miranda path: C:\Miranda NG
Miranda NG version: 0.95.2 build #9966 x64
Build time: 2 Aug 2014 15:38:45
Profile path: C:\Miranda NG\Profiles\Test\Test.dat
Profile size: 64,00 KBytes
Profile creation date: 11 Oct 2014 20:17:37
Language pack: Polish (PL) [0415]
Service Mode: No

Active Plugins (18):
  AdvaImg.dll v.0.11.0.1 [2 Aug 2014 15:31:27] - Miranda image services
  AIM.dll v.0.11.0.1 [2 Aug 2014 15:30:43] - AIM protocol
  AVS.dll v.0.95.2.2 [2 Aug 2014 15:30:19] - Avatar service
  Clist_modern.dll v.0.9.1.1 [2 Aug 2014 15:33:31] - Modern contact list
  DbChecker.dll v.0.95.0.3 [2 Aug 2014 15:34:33] - Database checker
  Dbx_mmap.dll v.0.95.1.3 [2 Aug 2014 15:30:21] - Miranda NG mmap database driver
  Facebook.dll v.0.2.9.1 [27 Aug 2014 15:29:12] - Facebook RM
  GG.dll v.0.11.0.3 [2 Aug 2014 15:30:50] - Gadu-Gadu protocol
  ICQ.dll v.0.11.2.5 [2 Aug 2014 15:31:05] - IcqOscarJ protocol
  Import.dll v.0.11.0.1 [2 Aug 2014 15:30:19] - Import contacts and messages
  IRC.dll v.0.11.0.2 [2 Aug 2014 15:30:51] - IRC protocol
  Jabber.dll v.0.11.0.4 [2 Aug 2014 15:31:16] - Jabber protocol
  MSN.dll v.0.11.0.2 [2 Aug 2014 15:31:21] - MSN protocol
  PluginUpdater.dll v.0.1.2.2 [2 Aug 2014 15:34:44] - Plugin updater
  TabSRMM.dll v.3.3.1.7 [2 Aug 2014 15:30:40] - TabSRMM
  TopToolBar.dll v.0.8.0.3 [2 Aug 2014 15:33:11] - TopToolBar
  VersionInfo.dll v.1.5.0.3 [2 Aug 2014 16:34:24] - Version information
  Yahoo.dll v.0.11.0.1 [2 Aug 2014 15:30:58] - Yahoo protocol
[close]

Miranda wants admin privilages on every start, PluginUpdater wasn't a problem.

I had same problem on my another PC with Windows 8, lastest alpha and non-portable mode, but after what you said i see it's possible to happen.
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: watcher on 12 10 2014, 17:11:11
Try starting miranda not from system drive. Try drive D: Sometimes UAC doesn't like system drive to be used.
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: Wishmaster on 12 10 2014, 19:53:59
yoGhurt, Can you check if the prompt is for miranda64.exe or pu_stup.exe? Last ones belongs to pluginUpdater.
Title: Odp: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: yoGhurt on 12 10 2014, 22:13:55
Tried from different drive but sadly, same thing.

Also, I think i wrote topic in wrong way. Miranda is not asking for admin privilages - program doesn't want to start at all if i not press "run as admin".
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: Wishmaster on 12 10 2014, 22:27:33
Quote from: yoGhurt on 12 10 2014, 22:13:55
Tried from different drive but sadly, same thing.

Also, I think i wrote topic in wrong way. Miranda is not asking for admin privilages - program doesn't want to start at all if i not press "run as admin".
Yes, because it tries to create a profile file and UAC doesn't allow it. Not a Miranda issue. The only way to work with UAC is to create profile directory in %APPDATA% via mirandaboot.ini. That's why you shouldn't use portable version with UAC enabled. You should only use portable version on an USB drive.
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: watcher on 12 10 2014, 22:39:14
Quote from: Wishmaster on 12 10 2014, 22:27:33
Yes, because it tries to create a profile file and UAC doesn't allow it. Not a Miranda issue. The only way to work with UAC is to create profile directory in %APPDATA% via mirandaboot.ini. That's why you shouldn't use portable version with UAC enabled. You should only use portable version on an USB drive.

On a non-system drive? UAC shouldn't block writing to profile or block program in any way. If it was installed in C:\Program Files, than yes - profile in %APPDATA% is the only answer. I tried portable Miranda on non-system drive with UAC enabled, worked just fine. The only thing is - I've never tried it as unprivileged user, only as administrator.
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: yoGhurt on 13 10 2014, 15:32:59
Quote
The only way to work with UAC is to create profile directory in %APPDATA% via mirandaboot.ini.

That would explain, but for normal instalation. For portable instalation it shouldn't happen at all because Miranda keeps profile in Miranda directory.

Watcher, yup, i tried this as standard user, so you should try to get prove of this.
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: watcher on 13 10 2014, 16:03:01
I had to create standard user to check it out, well...

yoGhurt, portable installation with profile inside Miranda's folder works perfectly well running as standard user with UAC enabled when placed outside of Program files (C:\ - fine, D:\ - fine).

Can't confirm your statement.
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: skitungen on 14 10 2014, 07:04:21
Just to but in for a shorty... UAC is crap and IMHO it should never be on if you have adequate protection (i.e. antivirus/firewall, non microsoft products that is).
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: yoGhurt on 14 10 2014, 07:58:28
watcher, ok, could you check what security properties you've got in Miranda NG folder when you put it in main directory of C: or D: ? That would explain difference between your and my test, because of list of users that have privilages to this folder.  I've got only system user, owner, administrator group and user group - it should be also domain user group because my users were added to this group.
Also i could confirm that portable version works in some situations, because i tried this just seconds ago on different PC. But i'm still not completely sure about this problem. I need to check this.

Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: watcher on 14 10 2014, 11:17:29
yoGhurt,

Spoiler
(https://forum.miranda-ng.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FmoW45wf.png&hash=05a67d77d6d91cd534d899c78fe796a036c201b2)
[close]
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: Wishmaster on 14 10 2014, 12:18:29
Quote from: skitungen on 14 10 2014, 07:04:21
Just to but in for a shorty... UAC is crap and IMHO it should never be on if you have adequate protection (i.e. antivirus/firewall, non microsoft products that is).
No, UAC is a very useful protection against malware. Miranda NG also works perfectly with it if you write your profile to AppData directories.
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: watcher on 14 10 2014, 13:56:58
Quote from: Wishmaster on 14 10 2014, 12:18:29
Miranda NG also works perfectly with it if you write your profile to AppData directories.

No need to write profile to APPDATA for portable installatin (unless you put it to UAC protected folders like Program Files).
Post Merge: 14 10 2014, 14:02:12
yoGhurt, Windows Server 2012 = windows 8 and UAC there is MUCH more restricted than in Vista/7, so i don't know what to tell you.  I only use Windows 7.
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: yoGhurt on 14 10 2014, 21:59:29
Quote from: Wishmaster on 14 10 2014, 12:18:29
No, UAC is a very useful protection against malware. Miranda NG also works perfectly with it if you write your profile to AppData directories.

Yup, also it's very useful in workspace environment to limit user permissions, because third party antyvir/firewall systems, wouldn't help in that case.

Anyway, back to the topic - watcher i see you've got in privilages authenticated users, so this is difference. What i also found out is, when i use portable Miranda extracted from .7z - it runs well BUT only on this account with which one i extracted those files ,so, i've got privilages as an owner. When i change account and try to run Miranda from this folder, problem comes back. In this case, it didn't matter if user was admin level or just standard user - this problem appeared in both ways.
I also tried this test with different portable programs and this problem didn't happen, so it's point for that it isn't Windows privilages related problem but Miranda related.
I'll try tomorrow on some Win7 virtual machine to check how it would work there because i don't really really remember what i was doing with Miranda back in early 2012.
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: Wishmaster on 15 10 2014, 08:18:09
yoGhurt,For obvious reasons, Miranda needs to create a profile file, and this is blocked by UAC.  How can it be a Miranda problem? What should Miranda do?

You can use mirandaboot.ini to put all profile data to %APPDATA%, so where is the problem? Would that solution be too simple?
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: White-Tiger on 15 10 2014, 09:14:24
Even without UAC, what he does wouldn't work ;) It's a file/folder permission problem^^ (ok maybe it works without UAC as he's then using the rights of an administrator and not user...)

The question is more like where the permission issues came from... either

I would just change the folders permissions recursive, including files, and it should work... even with updates.
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: Robyer on 16 10 2014, 07:26:46
I agree with White-Tiger.

And just random thought: Do you use shlext.dll or similar plugin, which requires admin privileges?
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: watcher on 16 10 2014, 08:31:59
The man presented VI - why ask what he uses? http://forum.miranda-ng.org/index.php?topic=3667.msg8564#msg8564
Post Merge: 16 10 2014, 08:32:49
And i didn't find anything suspicious in it.
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: yoGhurt on 16 10 2014, 09:33:58
To be clear, because some people mis-undesrtood my problem. I need to have portable version of Miranda to publish it for several users manually and also as RemoteApp. When it's normal instalaton, it just doesn't work because of permissions. Adding new permissions to folder for portable version shouldn't be a reason becasue, obviously it should work out-of-the-box everywhere for all users, especially it's main folder , not some specific folder with specific permissions.

Wishmaster, like i said, it's portable version so, how it would want to create profile in Appdata if this version supposed to be portable? This doesn't make sense.

White-Tiger, please read whole topic before you post, because all your suggestions or possibilites i wrote posts ago, aren't solutions for using Miranda in future - but i'll reapet that, it shouldn't be like that i every time need to change permissions if there are portable software that works fine with this folder permisions. Also, if you would read my VI, you would see it's WS 2012E so, it's obviously not a upgraded OS (one option would be WHS2011 but that didn't happen).




Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: White-Tiger on 16 10 2014, 10:39:00
Quote from: yoGhurt on 16 10 2014, 09:33:58
[...] Also, if you would read my VI, you would see it's WS 2012E so, it's obviously not a upgraded OS (one option would be WHS2011 but that didn't happen).
Your VI is unimportant ;) Same with the OS you use^^ I spoke about personal experience. As my Windows is on C: with 40GB and all my other stuff is on D: and E:. If I reinstall Windows which might happen once in a few years (well sometimes I've even reinstalled once a year xD) All rights on D: and E: are sometimes messed up. I cant write to it as a normal user and need to acquire admin rights.
In your case your folder rights are also messed up. Either because of the way you've extracted Miranda, or because the folder where Miranda is in is messed up... I don't know. I won't find out till I see it myself. All I know is that it's to 99% a rights issue and doesn't have that much to do with Miranda. Currently it's your PC.
Miranda itself is very portable, I never used it differently and of course never had any issue or had to change it's rights^^ Though I'm currently compiling Miranda myself (and also zipping it myself) so I'm not using the Archive provided by NG and thus can't keep their rights in cause that's problem.

P.S. I've also just tested the official development 7z archive, extracted using 7-zip didn't cause any trouble and Miranda can write to it.

edit: just to make it clear, if you fix our folder rights (of Miranda or better of the top level), you'll never need to worry again^^ And you should also be able to zip it and use it on another PC unless it's rights are also messed up^^
So it's a definite solution and not temporarily when done correctly.
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: yoGhurt on 17 10 2014, 08:07:18
watcher, i had finally way to test this on Win 7 and i can confirm your test - on Win 7 Enterprise ,portable version works well on all accounts when you'll put Miranda in main folder on C: .That could limit problem to newer OS then Win 7 because of new permissions policy. But still it not explain why it can't work when another portable apps works fine.
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: White-Tiger on 19 10 2014, 09:59:08
Like I said... file/folder permission problem...

btw. I'm on Win8.1
Title: Re: Administrator privilages needed for portable Miranda NG.
Post by: yoGhurt on 23 10 2014, 09:59:58
Ok, i'll give up for now. I tried to do some reverse engineering what Miranda installer do while installing portable version or how Miranda acts while it's just unpacked from .7z but i didn't found nothing interesting. I will need to change permissions for folder manually but i think problem still exists and this should work out-of-the-box in that scenario. Maybe i'll go back to this problem later to get some more informations that would helpfull here to resolve this problem.


Quote
btw. I'm on Win8.1
If you're on Win 8.1 you should know how permission to files changed according to ealier Windows versions, if not, please read articles about technet. Also because of that, you're wrong on many levels in your previous post, so technet would be helpfull here too.